We1 interrupt this discussion on law and justice to ask this important question about base running.
(Cross-posted at the Huey Lewis and the News board, which is always a good place to talk baseball...)2
Since we're talking baseball [...] I have a base running question. There have been a couple of situations like the one tonight [at Tuesday's A's game], when on a long fly ball the runner wasn't able to advance.Tonight's scenario: first base empty, runner on second, one out. There's a long fly ball hit deep. It's either going to clear the fence, be caught on the warning track, or drop in on the warning track. But as the ball carried, the runner came pretty far off the bag. Meaning that by the time the ball was fielded (in this case, caught on the fly) there wasn't enough time to come back, tag up, and then go to third. But the ball was hit deep enough that had the runner been standing on the bag, there probably would have been time to advance - even if the ball had dropped in for a hit.
My question: is it bad base running to have wandered so far off the bag? The upside to doing that seems to be that if the ball did drop in, the runner might have been able to get all the way home. But the A's were way behind at this point, and just getting to third would have been helpful. It seemed that in trying to get the extra bases, they gave up a good chance to get one.
Anyway, a few weeks ago there was a similar situation with the runner on first, where on a deep hit he couldn't advance because of the tagging problem. I forget the exact details of that play - which obviously was a little different because of the force situation - but I remember thinking even then that given the deepness of the ball, there was no reason to lead off so far. Even if the ball were to drop in for a hit and the runner needed to make it to second, there would have been time to get there.
So it seems like this is the way the A's like to run the bases this season. But I wonder, is it wise?
Anyway, over at the board no one's answered me. They're all busy talking about music videos and upcoming concerts. Troglodytes3 ;-)
But I thought I'd share my take on it over here, and see what other opinions might be.4
1. And by "we," I mean "me," but "we" sounded better.
2. Does this surprise you? They did name an album "Sports."
3. I'm kidding. Mostly.
4. Apologies to the Unreasonable Man for borrowing his footnoted blogging style.
Comments (5)
Yeah, I've always been kinda skeptical about the advice to run halfway between the bases on a fly ball. It sorta makes sense in a force situation, since the outfielder could just let the ball drop and then throw to second. But thinking about it, it might actually make sense.
I think theory-wise, it's more important to stay alive than to advance. The key here might be that there was one out. If the ball is caught and he has to get back, he's still at second, and still in scoring position. If the ball isn't caught, then he scores. If he tries to tag at second, though, whether the ball is caught or not, he'll be at third - and if the ball is caught, it'll be two outs, meaning a sac fly won't help. So the question is, do you want it to be two outs with a runner on second or third? Not much of a difference, really. But if you don't try to tag up, you score if the ball isn't caught.
Now if it's no outs, then... probably the play would be to try to tag up. But I'm not a professional baseball player - I wouldn't know.
Posted by Koichi | August 12, 2005 10:25 PM
Posted on August 12, 2005 22:25
Hi. Thought I'd take a stab at your base running question.
Tagging on such a fly ball is very situational. Given that the A's were losing, they would surely want to capitalize on scoring if they could. In such a situation the ol' rule is "go half way." That way the runner can score if the ball is dropped or hits off the wall, with plenty of time to get back to 2nd if the ball is caught. By staying on 2nd the runner would not only risk not scoring but also risk being thrown out at 3rd.
Also, being on 3rd with 2 outs is not much of an advantage, since the runner would likely score on a base hit from 2nd (because he would be running and have a head start when contact was made). And, if the next batter didn't get a hit, that would be the 3rd out and the inning would be over.
Generally, the "go half way" rule applies to all runners on 1st and 2nd for fly balls (not pop-ups)...and rarely to a man on 3rd who should stay on the bag (exception being a shallow fly ball when it would be too long a run to tag up and if the ball drops he'd score easily)
Ah, the knowledge that stays with you from Little League! I hope I helped. Keep enjoying the games! (Even though I am an Angel fan!)
Posted by Tom | August 13, 2005 9:49 AM
Posted on August 13, 2005 09:49
Sorry for you guys getting cross-posted the comments. I couldn't get them readily approved while I was traveling so you couldn't see the other person's there.
There was some heads-up baserunning during that last game against Anaheim last week, however.
Posted by Cathy | August 16, 2005 9:12 AM
Posted on August 16, 2005 09:12
Ah, yes. Scoring on a brain-fart. We had no rules in Little League for that one. (Stupid Angels). I'll just keep hoping that the A's enjoy 2nd place...
Posted by Tom | August 16, 2005 4:30 PM
Posted on August 16, 2005 16:30
I have a little different viewpoint on this particular situation. I consider myself somewhat of a baseball fanatic, and subsequently i am a Cubs fan. Now I did not see this exact play, but I am going to assume that this was a high fly ball that would have been considered a rutine play if it stayed in the park (which in this case...it did). Also, there are several different ways to score from third with 2 outs that would not result in a score from second....
1. Passed ball
2. Wild pitch
3. Fielding error
4. Throwing error
5. Infield hit
Those are the only ones i can think of right now but i believe there are at least 7 of them. Therefore, in my opinion, the ball is either going to be caught or something will go terribly wrong and the runner should be able to score from second anyways. So assuming the runner has decent speed it would not have been dumb to tag and go to third. However, going halfway is the "smart play" because he would score easily if the ball dropped, and is still in scoring position if it didn't. Considering the fact that they were down by quite a few runs and this was probably late in the game he should have been relativly far off of the bag at second. In a one run game, with a fast runner on second, and a decent batter on deck i would tag and go to third. Also, you have to take into account the arm of whoever caught the ball.
The best part about baseball is that you have to think on your feet. There is no exact science in this crazy game. It all depends on the situation and the abilities of the players involved. Hopefully this gives you a little insight on how the game works in these situations. But from the information i got on this play...he did the right thing.
Posted by Dusty | April 15, 2006 5:51 PM
Posted on April 15, 2006 17:51